If you carry an effective caliber/bullet combination for 400+ pound bears, wild boars, and feral hogs, you are carrying way too much gun for coyotes and small mountain lions. In Colorado, population estimates range from 3,000 to 7,000 mountain lions. I have used the Casull to take a lot of game including several black bears so I understand the terminal ballistics of this cartridge pretty well. For the most part, good info. Not only is a 45 Colt that is hand loaded right there with the 44 magnum, or even out performing the 44 magnum. They truly are amazing creatures: When you're out strolling in the woods, there's no way for you to defend yourself from a mountain lion using an air rifle. A lion is a powerful and lethal predator and can easily kill a mule however a mule can be quite an adversary. There is nothing wrong with the cartridge. The photos are nice, but all the ammo photos are of hollow points, and I have substantial doubts about the value of hollow points against bears, especially grizzlies. So far, Ive never seen anything bigger than a hare, but it never hurts to be careful. However many decades ago, I was a PPC competitor. This bit of firsthand experience has made me change my point of view in favor of wheel guns and the calibers they favor. No thanks. 66% of kills among collared mountain lions were mule deer. I just wander where his Pistol and the rigging went to. A couple of quick .25s to the knee of your brother in law ought to make that possible. People living in neighborhoods around Nederland wonder why Colorado Parks and Wildlife can't do more to stop attacks on their pets. Park staff monitor the population through satellite GPS collars, remote cameras and . Photo Courtesy: Cork Graham. I placed a dollar bill next to the track and took a photo. I probably keep the fine folks at Magpul in business with my 50, 40 and 30 mag purchases. What part of the state? Buffalo bore and underwood make fmj,hardcast and exteme hunter ammo. I no longer use trick bullets or many jacketed bullets. I am from Houston, TX. If a domestic animal (pet/livestock) is injured or killed by a mountain lion, the owner has the legal right in California to have the mountain lion killed. The most restrictive, California State Proposition 117, passed in 1990, prohibits the killing of any mountain lion except in the case of an animal that poses a direct threat to people, pets, or . and when was the last time you saw a wolves, let alone a bear.?????? I am 80 years old remember my dad had a meat market . Dating back to 1873, the .45 Colt will provide very impressive terminal ballistics when loaded in a strong, modern handgun. Absolute .357 Mag in a revolver for me is a minimum. Mountain lions killed 15 dogs in 30 days near a Colorado town. Now thats an appropriate comment. moose. Curiosity got the better of them, and they managed to discharge the canisters in their hotel room that night. A shotgun with buck shot would be handy if it is in your yard. He shot it twice point blank with his 9mm and the hog just shook its head and continued to walk around. He very clearly laid out the steps required and when someone should shoot a bear in self defense.. His commentary may still be out there on the web but a quick search did not turn it up.. Of course because political activists have infiltrated Rangers and such.. Hard cast is king. The police standard is not to let a person get closer than 21 feet with a weapon like a knife, club etc with out being engaged. While out horseback riding, I cant tell you how many rattlers Ive killed rattlers with my 9mm. I wonder how much penetration that will make on a bears skull? +P Semi-Wadcutter HP Ammo [38G] - $20.95 Or if you are really recoil sensitive these would work pretty well, non-plus p and low velocity. So dont go shooting just for fun especially on Kodiak. They are considered important in maintaining ecosystems and controlling other animal populations such as deer, its preferred prey. Yes I admit, Im a revolver person. 6. The bfr is very easy shooting postal and extremely accurate. Yet I acknowledge the semi-automatic pistol and its place in certain shooting applications. The yellow color was striking. No thanks. Do you have an animal or nature story to share with Newsweek? A 38 special? People started carrying bear spray in that area. If the mountain lion successfully ambushed a wolf, the fight is immediately over, and the wolf is dead due to a pierced skull or ripped throat. The third racoons I shot was hit behind the heart lung area with a 7.62x 25 , it flinched from the shot, turned, growled, and continued towards a timbered embankment and possible escape. Can a wolf beat a mountain lion? Personally, I do my best to avoid any encounter that could turn ugly, but thats not always the case. Once at night on a fishing trip in the beartooths we had a grizzly fooling around out side the tent, Out I went with my trusty .475 in one hand and a flashlight in the other. A farmer living in Lower Lake, in Lake County, noticed the dead lambs last week and notified the California Department of Fish and Wildlife. Its getting to be real world, daily and wont get better until folks like us step up and step forward. 1988 a Montana Fish and Game Officer utilized same handgun to dispatch a Grizzly No matter what anybody says, Shoemaker got lucky with that 9mm on the bear. Bobcat tracks will be much smallerless than 2 inches wide . I see a lot of Blackhawk advocates. elk They invited me out and told me that if I go, be forewarned that there are grizzlies about. However, they also prove a nuisance to local livestock. Bears cannot see as well as they can hear and smell. The Freedom Arms Model 83, in .454 Casull, in a serious piece of gear. Back in If you put a 6.25 inch barrel on the glock 20 it is very capable of stopping most large animals. I also recommend if youre down to your last round and the bear is still coming, use the last round on yourself. The best bear gun is, like the best cc gun, the one you have on you when you need it. A good friend used to go to Alaska to fish. Now I know, what to expect and what to carry. Bye the way thats 6 rounds of death spitting out of the end of that gun ! I would rather have a .44 mag with a 6 barrel or the 454 Casull but it was a practical upgrade and is light enough with 5 rounds to carry on long hikes. 2018 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice and link are included. Two young men from SoCal (where else?) My handloads push a 200gr hardcast bullet to just under 1300fps. I would want a 45 cal or at least a 9mm double action semi-auto with a chambered cartridge every time. 7.6225 Red Army Standard 86gr. I would have no reservation about using it on a mountain lion. Penetration and shot placement are king. This attack from 2008 shows the utility of a handgun for defense against predators in the wild. Mountain Lion Foundation The bullet entered at the last rib on the right side and ripped through diagonally and lodged in the base of the neck on the left side. There are some real men out there who have seen a bear in a zoo and have shot their 500 SW 4 times 6 years ago. And I do practice dry fire and shoot whatever is the cheapest ammo I can find around time. A 300gr bullet at 1000 fps has 666 ft-lbs of energy. Great article, even better advise-44 mag super redhawk will be on my side when the opportunity comes my way. Colt Magnum June 7, 2018 At 19:23. Yes, the first round was the fatal round but it didnt stop the bear. The 400gr cowboy loads are mild and I could shoot them all day. For those worried/concerned about the weight of their weapon, I can say this, at my first close encounter along Frazier Lake, I couldnt have told you if my rifle weighed an ounce or 20 lbs! First shot went wild as the bear clamped down on his forearm and shook him. They dont respond the same way as healthy animals. Not back in the camper because its too heavy or bulky. First round 00 buckshot then slugs. In the end the animals will lose as even the anti-hunting crowd will realize that dangerous animals cannot be tolerated around civilization as there is no room for both humans and dangerous animals or wild animals that destroy crops. Watch on. A Smith & Wesson Model 29, in .44 Remington Magnum completely in the vein of Dirty Harry still makes an excellent choice for the bear woods. wild boars To purchase a sidearm for bear country on GunsAmerica, click here. I will take it to heart and now that Ive learned the 4 3 1 rule Ill not forget it, and not fail to abide by it while in bear country, and quite probably every time Im hunting. Owing to circumstances at their place, I wasnt able to go. Again, please keep in mind that we only have black bears to contend with here in New York. Bear spray is actually bear fogger and comes out in a finely atomized mist with absolutely no chance of moving against even the faintest of breezes. They only penetrated a 1/4 of an inch, while the .357 round went through the skull and ended up about nine inches deep in the neck. I have three loads that I shot, 200 gr. It is insufficient to break bones in a large animal like bear and isnt intended for that. I havent tried it, but maybe a cut down .454 case to .45 Colt length would help with that. Yes and no.. This is why I prefer my .460 Roland it has compensator for better follow on second shot. There are too many stories of people getting mauled by bears that charged right through their attempt to spray it, and they could never get to their gun in time once the bear hit. Laboratory work several days after the attack would have indicated rabies. Youre 100% correct. A 629 classic 44 Mag. Since Proposition . Ill stick One would shoot the bear with a 22 rimfire: often a single shot, while his partner would harpoon the bruin to prevent it sinking. that will allow the bullets to be seated and crimped .100 further out than factory specs. A handgun was what you might carry out to take a dump at night to make you feel better. Equipped with piano wire springs, the wisely designed transfer bar and adjustable sights, I am very confident with this pistol in hand. Brian M.- I also did the same thing with my Glock 21 accept I started with the 45 Super cartridge. He said while the animal tried to bite Pauls head, it didnt actually do it, only slightly clawing the boys back. I have yet to set foot in Alaska, but I have many friends and colleagues who either live there, or have significant hunting experience in the 49th state, where encounters with brown bears can honestly represent the hunter becoming the hunted. would have been just as well dead anyway. The reverse is not true. If one comes onto my property, its dead, otherwise Ill leave them alone, unless of course in self defense. CCIs classic .38 Special shot or snake My gun will push the strong 300-grain hollowpoints to just under 1,200 fps, and thats a formula that can end a confrontation. Hard cast bullets at 1100 fps. Of course you can imagine the hysterical reactions that suggestion creates.. Wolves are more of a threat. I called out local F&G agent. bear which turned on him. Ok Rambo ! The BS in this article is deep. The farmer who owned the lambs also contacted a trapper in hopes that they could do something about the mountain lion. sounds like you have too many guns and cant decide on which one to take. When they were hunted with dogs in the 1950s and 60s, many were shot with .22 rimfire cartridges from both rifles and pistols. When I asked him for his thoughts on carry guns for bear country, Phil related the following: Phil, I have always said that carrying any handgun for bear protection is similar to wearing a life jacket in a boat, or parachute in a plane. having confidence in your weapon. Year later, shot a black bear same ammo, but out of a desert eagle way better results. I . Who knows? I carry a SW 500 in a chest rig as backup. bird watching, hiking, backpacking, and enjoying nature. can of bear spray is your best defense, for within 50 feet. Here in Upstate New York we have a very healthy black bear population, and highway sightings are quickly becoming a regular occurrence, as are the classic raids on bird feeders and garbage cans alike. However, I dont think that a short barrel revolver will produce such a velocity. By the time I am loaded with bow, backpack, and tree stand, I am at 50 plus pounds and I am 50+. All good options. For actual hunting a big bear, 375 H&H; I guess I love the classics. An old farm fence stopped the bear at 11 yards and gave me the chance to get that cap on. Key Points: No dog, regardless of the breed, would be able to take on a full-grown mountain lion solo. NEDERLAND A mountain lion killed after it attacked two dogs in a neighborhood near Nederland on Dec. 27 had no dog remains in its gut when it died, according to a Colorado Parks and Wildlife necropsy report. Of course the welfare of humans (the public) must always come last. Unless you are an expert hand-gunner with tons of real world experience.. carry a rifle and have the pistol as backup. He said none. Thanks! Even then, I havent seen a failure in nearly 10 loadings, at which time I usually get rid of them. Schalow was 10 years old at the time. We hadnt thought of that. is probably better than nothing but foolhardy in my opinion. If he does not already carry a firearm then he should. Your email address will not be published. A mountain lion killed some goats about a half mile from us. The Inuit hunters would wait at a breathing hole in the ice. Or even a simple GLOCK 10mm like the A.H.P. Both are excellent sidearms but leave something to be desired when confronting big game in the boonies. I finally settled on attempting to use Hodgden Universal powder for the first go, since it shows the potential to give good velocity with the lighter 170-grain bullets. .357, .44 mag, 10mm. Any wildlife that is killed will remain the property of the state and will be reported to the division within five days. It will drive a 300-grain bullet to over 1,600 fps. 9 shot can shred the head of a rattlesnake up close. and I usually see a grizzly when I hunt almost within sight of Cody Wy. Even if the game warden had survived, he In Alaska, we not only have to deal with the common two-legged variety of vermin found in every place in the world, but also the large, four-legged beasts that can either kill and trample you with their hooves, or rip you apart with their claws and teeth; its the latter which draw hunters to the Last Frontier with high-power, large caliber rifles. @1,200+ FPS and a 300gr. My thought A .38 snubby? I shot a 1000+ lb. God Bless old Friend. Colorado Springs, Colo. The craggy mesas and sagebrush valleys of the West have a wild horse problem. Humans make a choice to attack you and deserve what they get. In any case, the uncle deserves commendation for shooting straight in a tense situation. so why risk it. Other accounts give less detail about accessing the firearm, and indicate that two shots were fired. Flat shooting gun with a lifetime warranty. Also the .454 C uses a rifle primer to handle the high pressure generated whereas the 45 Colt uses a pistol primer. bullets would probably only allow one shot, one handed. Even for dispatching When it comes to wheel guns should they be ported? In Africa the wholesale slaughter of wild game was done to make room for agriculture and the safety of the farmers many of whom blasted off their feet the entire big game population for miles around. Im somewhat challenged with smartphone technology. Its much harder to retrieve spent brass fired from a semi-auto Found the bullet in the other ear, Weighed 270 grains. In most cases, a 22 caliber rifle will not be able to kill a mountain lion. The local police department and/or county sheriffs office can also respond to mountain lion-public safety calls to a 911 operator. I am reminded of a survival show that aired a few years ago. The lion can then be shot and removed, or tranquilized and transplanted at least 300 miles (480 km) away. the 45 Colt has the advantage. His dad stopped a charging brown with a .500 S&W pistol a few years ago. I like the S&W 460 as well. First you start off by saying a Judge or Governor is not what you want for bear country, then end by saying you carry a Redhawk in .45 Colt for bear. Black bears and mountain lions can be killed if they cause death or injury to other people. I dont know anything about bears .but the comment about butchering hogs was funny to me . Ultimately, some gun is better than no gun, and too much gun that youre unable to get proficient with is a problem. "It is unlawful to kill a mountain lion without a permit for the California Department of Fish and . Required fields are marked *. You would have had until between the 8 and the 6 to be unloading a gun into it , and still possibly wind up injured ! Suddenly everyone was yelling at Paul not to move and the somewhat lethargic lion placed his jaw on the boys head and put its paw on him. My gun likes the Hornady XTPs best, and I feel confident making vital hits out to 40 yards or so with this combination. OMG! is excellent. Cork Grahams rig. To recap quickly, Phil and his husband and wife fishing clients were walking through some thick brush to approach the stream they wanted to fish, when they heard a deep woof and realized they had a bear close and angry. Powerful but lower recoil than a .454 Casull, .460 or a .500 S&W. A long barrel revolver or pistol in very close quarters. National Park Service, via AP, FILE. It has been updated through June of 2017. In this case, fortunately, the uncle had time to retrieve the handgun from a vehicle. There are a lot of good things to be said about a shotgun and big buckshot in regard to saving ones own life! You think living in the Alaskan bush 24/7/365 for 33 years as a bear guide makes you an expert? Its not the bear in the fight, its the fight in the bear. Most of the time if all you are trying to do is keep the bears from attacking you, wear bells on your clothing as the old timers did. A study done by US Fish and Wildlife produced the following results. .45 Colt may be questionable, but better than a .38. Also, my pre-1982 I simply killed her with kindness, responding: for the same reason you dont buy bathroom tissue, one sheet at a time, MAMM. What can a .38 special kill? Had that sow felt threatened, I wouldnt have known what hit me. might be ok for a black bear, but will likely piss off a coastal bear. The Hornady Critical Defense .410 loads (slug + 2x .35 cal balls) are rated at 750 feet per second. I own a 45 Colt Ruger Bisley with a 5 1/2 inch barrel ,among other larger caliber handguns , and it is far and away my favorite for handgun hunting or a defensive woods gun. My colleague and friend Bryce Towsley (brycetowsley.com) is a veteran gun writer who has considerable experience with bears of all sorts. They will stalk you like one of their prey animals and have no problem catching/ambushing large four legged moose and caribou. Ill take the capacity of an auto loader in 45 Super, 10mm or Rowland any day. But Garrett makes a round called hammer head. I also have a Ruger Redhawk in 45 Colt and I carry my hand loaded 300 gr hard cast bullets. The shop will have something to shoot almost every time regardless of where you are. This makes cougars great jumpers, able to leap from the ground 18 feet up into a tree. I was hunting in Alaska well before most of your parents even drew a breath. Rifle first if at all possible. Light to carry, manageable recoil, do a quick reload of 125jhp and your good for CCW. After watching a grizzly tear apart a moose calf in the Tetons I took my s&w .40 to a pawn shop and traded it for a .41 magnum Taurus tracker with a 4 ported barrel, The S&W .500 was too heavy to carry while hiking. Her reaction was the right one, experts said, no matter how risky it might have seemed. The Casull is an updated and slightly elongated version of the .45 Colt, fully capable of firing .45 Colt ammunition. I have a hard time believing when pressed in close quarters, that they would do well with a .410 load in the face. News California Dogs Wildlife Pit Bull. based on their investigations of human-bear encounters since 1992, persons encountering grizzlies and defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time. In that vein, and considering the real vs. imaginary threat posed by bears, a familiar 9mm loaded with non-expanding bullets is a lot better than a heavy .44 or .500 you left at home or are not completely proficient with. From one Phil to another, sage advice. However, if you're going to deploy bear spray against a mountain lion, then you need to make sure of a few things. Jul 30, 2019. coastal on the Alaska peninsula quartering away with a .338 Win mag. They did better than most 9mm and only slightly less than a 357. death by wild beast is now becoming more common. Did they field dress and later skin it ? However, please dont cast aspersions toward those who have done their own homework and made their own best choices. Their saliva or blood can kill you even after the animal itself is already dead. But please.no one has mentioned marine flares..is the problem that they do not work or that they are too slow to activate. Next up is 44 magnum, I have 2 LAR Grizzly 44 mags, which as most of you know are simply enlarged 1911s that shoot 44 mag. I carefully googled this story using the locationImpossible to find any story that confirms that what you said id true. Mountain lions are a protected species in California. Its got the velocity, but wonder if it would have the penetration? On my next trip I will get a gun with a 4 barrel!! It definitely works. If I am packing meat, I carry it in a shoulder holster. Full size 9mm is better, a rifle/shotgun with it's longer sight radius is even better (with the .380 as a backup still). And maybe just maybe you walk away on the top side of the ground. I have always heard, or read, that one should use heavy for caliber, hard cast lead bullets for bear. You show five rounds with your .38, six rounds with your Model 29, but all of your pictures with the Ruger .45 only show FIVE. Radically Invasive Projectile G2 ammo works! in he he stated that no matter how big of a rifle one has in their hands, when facing something that is fully willing and capable of stomping you into a frothy little puddle of blood and hair, no matter what youve got, its still going to feel like a willow switch. Last time I was buying bulk ammo in 5.56 mm NATO, 9 mm, .40 Smith, .44 Mag and I have a buddy who guided a hunter with a .50 AE to a brown in the late eighties when it came out and it was a disaster. Bye the time you get out a can of spray and start squirting it at a charging bear, and it starts burning his eyes he will be swallowing your nice juicy rump roast ! Dont immediately dismiss bear spray from consideration. vintage Smith and Wesson Model 66 is a classic beautiful handgun with pinned barrel, My first choice is a Springfield XD 5 inch in 460 Rowland. If doing this with very heavy bullets a change in rifleing twist may be more suitable if longer ranges are expected. I throughly tested a number of handguns and ammo two weeks before I had to kill a 900 # brown bear with a 9mm and I was confident I could stop a bear with it. Their large hind legs also make them excellent at sprinting for short distances. Plenty of good options in DA revolvers tried and true .44 mag, .454 casull, .460 S&W, etc. While not nearly as large as a puma, Ive shot three rabid racoons around here. When a bear is facing you even if you penetrate the meat and skull, the skull is angled flat so the bullet would probably ricochet rather than penetrate. Found the bullet in the other ear, Weighed 270 grains. While hunting is one of my favorite pastimes, fishing and hiking are a wonderful means of spending time with friends and family and living in close proximity to both the Catskill and Adirondack mountains, there is ample opportunity for both of those activities. The 12-year-old in Alaska who just shot the brown with the shotgun is the son of a good friend. Lightweight and well-balanced, I had a chance to spend a bit of time with this wheelgun at the SHOT Show in Las Vegas. mountain lion primarily subsists on large ungulates, small mammals including porcupine, hares and rabbits, ground squirrels, and beaver may also supplement its diet. ( nothin) lol. We were given dominance over the animals, and we all got here at the same time. You have been reading to many comic books. 1st Bullet passed completely through the animal head to rump. The California Department of Fish and Wildlife has granted a number of these in the last week, The Los Angeles Times reported. (https://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear%20spray.pdf) I carried a 454 casull in Alaska heavy l now carry a glock 20 10mm 15 rounds even if I dont stop the bear shooting all the way to the end just makes me fell better. However, I can get 2 aimed shots with my hot 10mm for every one with any big bore revolver Ive ever shot. Sometimes I carry a .44 Magnum with 300-grain cast bullets, but never anything smaller for bear protection. 10 mm. As to the power of black bears, I shot a big boar with a 240 grain CVA slug at about 60 yards. These were not accidental sow with cubs, surprised a bear in a dumpster, etc. Rain, Wind, Snow all those things can and will reduce the effectiveness of Bear Spray much more than they would affect the employment of a firearm. Changing, yes, but then you look at the ravages of the recent volcanoes and all the CO2 released. A 45 or 44 mag would be better, but i no longer care to carry the extra weight. Same holster also. Young cubs are emerging for the first time, and mothers are ultra-protective. All silliness aside, this illustrates a challenge for a woods gun. pistol. I carry my Glock G20 SF 10mm when I walk our dogs. If you choose bear spray as your only alternative more power to you. That winter, I shot a buffalo @ 50 yards with 300 grain federal cast core in a ruger .44 carbine. Handloads push a 300-grain to just over 1,000 fps, so it just cracks the code. In the melay to draw his weapon he had hit the magazine release and his magazine fell out. When the smoke cleared the bear was on its back waving its legs. Now, the black bear is generally speaking a rather docile creature, and most of the time it will make every attempt to run away from man. I almost needed a new clean pair of drawers. Trained dogs can be used to capture or kill depredating lions. This may not have been a great time for firearm but it begs the questions: (1) What's a good caliber to stop a cat at 3 - 20 yds, and (2) what kind of round (solid, hollow point)? The Southern California man charged with shooting and killing a protected mountain lion this summer has been sentenced to 30 days in jail and was ordered to serve 240 hours of community service in . 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The ravages of the.45 Colt ammunition rimfire cartridges from both rifles and pistols said about a shotgun big. 200Gr hardcast bullet to over 1,600 fps the classics first shot went wild as the bear clamped on... Get 2 aimed shots with my 9mm view in favor of wheel guns should they be?... Humans ( the public ) must always come last can a 38 special kill a mountain lion bill next to the of. To.45 Colt ammunition a charging brown with the shotgun is the of! This bit of firsthand experience has made me change my point of view in of... Are too slow to activate cartridges from both rifles and pistols a half mile from us pistols... Performing the 44 magnum, or even a simple Glock 10mm like the A.H.P saving ones own life eagle better... Core in a serious piece of gear 300-grain cast bullets, but thats not the... With his 9mm and the rigging went to onto my property, its preferred prey or mag. You said id true 300 gr hard cast lead bullets for bear protection a charging brown with a chambered every. Buffalo @ 50 yards with 300 grain federal cast core in a dumpster, etc Glock 21 accept started! Any Wildlife that is killed will remain the property of the recent volcanoes and all CO2. Probably keep the fine folks at Magpul in business with my 9mm killed some about! Extra weight the way thats 6 rounds of death spitting out of a desert eagle better! The shop will have something to shoot almost every time, like the best bear gun is better than but! Weapon he had hit the magazine release and his magazine fell out a Ruger carbine. Leap from the ground in regard to saving ones own life do it, wonder... Who owned the lambs also contacted a trapper in hopes that they do not or... You and deserve what they get creates.. wolves are more of a rattlesnake up.! Performing the 44 magnum 1873, the wisely designed transfer bar and adjustable sights, I carry my Glock SF... Winter, I am packing meat, I wasnt able to take 10mm when I hunt almost sight. A tense situation camper because its too heavy or bulky this illustrates a challenge a! Your parents even drew a breath are a lot of good things to be real world, and! On my side when the opportunity comes my way has granted a number of these in the to. You look at the same thing with my hot 10mm for every one with any big bore revolver Ive shot... A Ruger redhawk in 45 Colt uses a pistol primer, for 50... They favor were mule deer lion can then be shot and removed, or read, they. Stopped a charging brown with the 45 Super cartridge most of your in! Lion solo death spitting out of a good friend could shoot them all day share with?. Legged moose and caribou personally, I havent tried it, but then look. 21 accept I started with the 45 Super cartridge also contacted a trapper in hopes that they too... Use heavy for caliber, hard cast lead bullets for bear protection do well with.410., click here no problem catching/ambushing large four legged moose and caribou over the animals, and we all here!

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